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Well put, Deb.

Apologies to Andy if I screwed up the context of halogenmoon's comments - I think we're on the same page. To clarify, I guess we're just looking to eliminate appeals like, "My grandma was a Catholic, and now she's dead - so are you calling my dead grandma a stupid liar!?!" On second thought, I guess that's a combination appeal to emotion, authority, and tradition.

I appreciate your comments, Capn. Theists often want to render emotions in strictly supernatural terms. If we try to explain them naturally, it appears as though we "cheapen" them, which is completely bogus. Even if I could draw a detailed neurological map of the chemical processes of love, I still wouldn't want to get rid of it or find it any less awesome. I might even find it more inspiring. However, successfully explaining that to someone under the spell of the religious meme is extraordinarily difficult, as I'm sure all of us have experienced.

m

Great analysis, Capn. Hope you can make it to a meeting some time - or maybe a UU service would be more convenient, travel and time-wise, for you - so we can discuss further.

This is one fault I see with many atheists, and one reason why I do not like the word "atheism" and do not want to be called an "atheist". Atheists seem to always be against something, hardly ever for something.

I agree with you here, and I think this is a sentiment largely misunderstood within the atheist community. It's not that we don't want to be called atheists because we're ashamed of the association - it's that no one wants to be defined by what they don't believe in. A blog whose title I have regrettably forgotten put it best: I'm "atheist," not "an atheist." "Atheist," in combination with other adjectives, describes me, but doesn't define me. It's not the whole of my worldview. I tried to articulate at the last meeting the point that atheism is a great and powerful discovery, but you can't just linger on the discovery. You have to use it as part of a philosophical toolbox to find your life's meaning.

They are always attacking their opponents' beliefs, almost never showing the benefits of their beliefs, especially the emotional ones.

I'd like to share a personal story that, to me, demonstrates the emotional benefits of a naturalistic worldview.

This past October, I lost a good friend from high school. Though we hadn't had much contact in the last couple of years, he was one of the 4 or 5 close friends I would say I "grew up with." He died in a hunting accident the day after his 31st birthday. Shortly after I received the news, another close friend remarked, "I feel sorry for you - your beliefs give you no way to deal with this."

I've since reached an understanding with that friend - he said it out of true concern, using the best way he knew to deal with death as a comparison. However, I haven't had the chance to show him how completely wrong he was.

This was, in fact, the first time I had dealt with loss since forming my naturalistic worldview. Without the gloss of the promise of eternal life and eventual reunification, I had to engage my emotion head-on. And it was sad. 31 years old, wife and 3 very young children left behind, a positive life cut unjustly short...there was nothing else to be but completely heartbroken. Not knowing exactly what to do, but wanting to escape somehow, I got on my mountain bike and headed for the Rivergreenway. At some point between my house and the trail I started crying - I can't imagine what a ridiculous sight I must have been, peddling at full speed through the neighborhoods while bawling like an idiot. I found a quiet spot on the trail where I let myself finally and completely break down.

After a short time, I regained my composure, got back on the bike, and almost immediately started the coping process. I focused on the positives, however bittersweet - he had an awesome life, and though I wished there were more to come, I was grateful for the times I was able to share with him. I tackled the psychological projection - moments before I received the news of his death, I had just felt my own child move for the first time. Over the next few days, I was able to effectively separate grief for my friend from my own newly-felt vulnerability. For the grief, I took pride in knowing that if my friend's children ever want to hear stories about their dad in high school, I'll be able to create that image for them. For the vulnerability, I resolved to live in the moment when my own child comes - to say the things that need to be said and appreciate everything to it's fullest along the way. I suppose a theist could eventually access all of these emotional tools, but I was able to do so with a powerful clarity that made everything more meaningful and consistent.

By the time of the funeral a few days later, I was still a little raw, but overall emotionally ready. My friend was a youth pastor. It was a little difficult to hear his best traits ascribed to the glory of Jesus, when I knew that he was simply a good person, and his goodness transcended the religious meme itself. For the record, in all of the time I knew him, and despite having attended many religious events with him, he never once proselytized to me or our other friends. It wasn't that he didn't care; it was out of respect for our ability to reason or worship or whatever in our own way. (Yet another reason I'm grateful to have known him.) I did find some positives in the funeral service. The celebrant made special note of the fact that my friend died doing what he loved. That's something I could embrace, even if my reasons for doing so were a little different. There was also a bible verse displayed that captured my friend's quiet strength perfectly. Again, different reasons, same sentiment.

After the funeral, I was able to share my condolences with his family, then share some great stories with friends. In the time since, I've continued the whole coping and healing process, but it didn't take very long to get to a real, meaningful, good place. I'm not sure I could have done so had I relied on spiritual fantasy as opposed to natural reality.

(I've posted this on my blog as well)

Agno - I may just have to steal your epitaph, though hopefully not too soon. Great insights.

m