Thoughts on Iowa

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mightymjolnir	Thoughts on Iowa		Lead	[-]
Posts: 125 01/04/08 13:04:26	Tags : None Anybody else watch the caucus coverage last night? I had a few thoughts on the winners: Barack Obama - I consider myself an independent, but the republican party over the past 6 years or so has turned me into a de facto democrat. Right now, my vote is Obama's to lose. (You out there, Deb?) I know we represent all shades of political affiliation here, but if we were to vote only on the topic of who is the best viable candidate for the non-religious or irreligious, I think he's at the top of the list. He talks about his faith and drops bible verses more than he probably should, but he has spoken on several occasions about the right to have no faith having the same importance as the right to have faith.. (Naturally, I've lost the articles/speeches, so I'd appreciate some help on that point.) His victory speech last night was fantastic. We'll see what happens in New Hampshire, but I'm pretty excited about Obama's prospects. Mike Huckabee - As excited as I am for Obama, I'm proportionately scared of Huckabee. The problem is that he's likeable, reasonably funny (if a couple of years late on the "Chuck Norris" bandwagon), and brings a populist economic message with a level of real compassion to which the Neo-Cons have previously only paid lip service. His baptist preacher background makes him a remarkably skilled political performer. The fact that he's southern makes him, historically speaking, VERY electable. I've read and heard a number of progressive pundits who are excited about running against Huckabee, thinking he's an easy mark, but I'm afraid they are grossly underestimating him. True, in a general election he will exposed for how completely bat-shit crazy he really is under that veneer of likeability, but if he can ignite the evangelical base nationwide like he did in Iowa...look out. Let's not forget that we're one 80+-year-old judge away from overturning Roe V. Wade, dissolving church-state separation, etc. Any thoughts? m
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agnohumanist		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 88 01/04/08 23:16:30	Kucinich is by far my favorite for lots of reasons, including that I've never heard him invoke religion in any way. I'm fully aware that he is considered a fringe candidate with no real chance, but, hey, I'm an idealist in this arena and I can't stop supporting him. That said, I agree with you about being scared of Hucklebee's evangelical zeal. Oh how I wish I could be a journalist with an opportunity to really grill these guys on the topic of religious belief! I'd ask Hucklebee directly whether he really believed that the earth is only 6,000 years old, despite the evidence to the contrary from virtually every branch of science. If he says yes (as I've heard he did in one interview--or at least wouldn't deny such a belief), I'd feel compelled to scream, "Then you can't be our president! Such intransigence in the face of monumental evidence against this delusional belief should disqualify you from any important decision-making position anywhere!" I know, I know--many people in this backward-thinking, superstition-believing, myth-worshipping nation would find such an ignorant belief comforting, but I'd still make him say it out loud publicly and try to defend his position against tough follow-up questions. Likewise, any reasonably intelligent journalist with any background in history and science should be able to make Romney look foolish by asking him specific questions about his Morman faith. As far as Obama goes, I guess I have to wonder how much of his bible quoting is just pandering to get elected and how much is sincere. Actually, I don't know which position would bother me more--that he really believes it or that he would say what he doesn't believe just to please a certain demographic group.
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mightymjolnir		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 125 01/05/08 13:13:29	but I'd still make him say it out loud publicly and try to defend his position against tough follow-up questions. A fine idea indeed. While we can't all get press passes, we would benefit from signing on to this initiative: ScienceDebate 2008 Regarding Kucinich, he's right on many issues. I wish he was more viable. However, many of his speeches have hinted at a sort of New Age mysticism, which concerns me a little, as does the title of his book, "A Prayer for America." (Full disclosure: I haven't read it yet.) The whole UFO thing is terribly unfortunate. It is a sad commentary on the state of political discourse in this country when such a trivial incident overshadows a candidate's positions on issues that really matter. Besides, I'll take "UFO-sighting" Kucinich over "Talks-Directly-To-Jesus" Bush any day of the week. I was content to let Romney's Mormonism go. Relatively speaking, I didn't think it was any less rational than "mainstream" Christian theology. Then came his "secularists are just plain wrong" and "freedom is religion" speech. I now say it's open season on his LDS background, but judging from Iowa, I think the evangelicals already took care of that. I agree with some of your concerns on Obama, but between his upbringing and his clear statements in support of the separation of church and state, I trust him to keep his administration on the secular straight and narrow. m
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agnohumanist		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 88 01/05/08 16:53:48	Boy, you hit the mark with the UFO question! I wanted to reach right through my tv and strangle Russert when he brought that up--it was Russert, wasn't it?--especially when he cut Dennis off as he tried to give a thorough reply. You could tell it was just what Russert thought was a cute "whacko" kind of thing to bring up to marginalize Kucinich. As you said, with all the important issues to ask him about, he had to bring that up. So now I'm waiting for him to ask Romney about "magic plates" that just disappeared a couple hundred years ago, and he believes it on the basis of what? Anyway, I forgot about the title of Dennis's book. You're right, that's a bit of a concern, although I think he used the term "prayer" loosely. (I haven't read it either.) Hope you're right on Obama's stance on state/church issues. My guess is he'd be less likely than Clnton to pander to the fundies.
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eXcommunicate		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3 01/07/08 23:39:52	Obama's thoughts on religion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-tdM265j7Q It's a multi-part video. It's also very good. He's one of the few presidential candidates, and indeed one of the few politicians period, that doesn't actively marginalize or discredit non-believers. In fact he's one of the few politicians I've seen speak on the issue without almost literally spitting out the word "non-believer" in a condescending manner. He's the type of guy in my mind that truly transcends the crass religious politics we've seen over the last 14 years since the Republicans took over congress in '94. I've contributed to his campaign multiple times and plan to do so again in the near future. I am of extremely moderate means, so it is no small thing for me to donate $50 at a time to a political campaign. As a Democrat, I do relish the idea that Huckabee could be their nominee. The man would win the South and a few plains states. Obama would take the rest. I think our nightmare candidate would be John McCain, who does have a chance to get the Republican nomination, even after his campaign imploded late last year. The problem for McCain is organization and money. He's actually in the red as far as his campaign finances are concerned. That might not be a problem for New Hampshire, but beyond I'm afraid he'll quickly become irrelevant to the campaign, except as an endorsement. For the Republicans in the end I still think it will come down to Romney or Giulliani. Romney has the money and organization for staying power and Giulliani has a late-state strategy that might pan out. New Hampshire is looking really good for Obama, as he's pulled ahead of Clinton by 13 points with Democrats and Democratic-leaning Independents. And nationally He has jumped into a TIE with Clinton at 33 percent. This is great news for the Obama campaign. Michael D. Hafer [aka eXcommunicated] Last Edited By: eXcommunicate 01/07/08 23:43:00. Edited 1 time.
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YoSoyJu		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 39 01/09/08 22:00:21	At the beginning of this campaign I wanted to see a Ron Paul vs. Dennis Kucinish baollot in November. They seem to me to both be nuts with the right direction, though differing ideas. I think a nut would be a great president. He wants to go too far, then Congress reels him in a bit and we get real change for the better. Then Ronnie went out and said the whole Evolution is only a 'theory' and one he didn't believe. F***! And I trusted him. Go Kucinich! As for Obama, he is probably the only viable canidate I would vote for. And on religion, I believe both of his parents are atheists. In my opinion, his whole religious stint is a stunt. And for McCain, I would probably vote for him over Hilary. Because at least he's honest about it. Hilary plays both sides of the aisle with a smile on her face and a lobbyist check in her back pocket. Do pant suits have back pockets? I don't know, but you get my point.
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agnohumanist		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 88 01/09/08 23:18:51	I totally agree with you about the "dream match-up" between Paul and Kucinich, with my preference being Kucinich. (But Paul would be so much better than we're used to in many ways and certainly better than any of the other R's). I was sorry to hear that he doesn't believe in evolution--very discouraging. Where did you hear or see that anyway? Only point I disagree with you on is I couldn't vote for McCain no matter who he was running against. But I agree with you on Clinton's shortcomings, so if those two end up as the nominees I'll just have to write in someone else. (I've done that twice before.) One big reason I wouldn't vote for McCain is that I couldn't believe he supported Bush (with a public hug, no less!) after the smear campaign the Bush followers dealt him in South Carolina in 2000. And I totally disagree with him on many issues also.
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mightymjolnir		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 125 01/10/08 17:11:23	Welcome back, YoSoyJu - long time no see. I wasn't aware of Paul's denial of evolution, but I'm not entirely surprised. He wrote a "war on christmas" opinion piece a few years back, and it demonstrated some of his latent fundie leanings. I was under the impression that Obama's mother was an atheist, and his dad was from an islamic background, but I admit I don't know much about his father. I was all about McCain in 2000. I even bought one of his books a few years ago. Like agno, I just can't get over his pandering to Jerry Falwell's bunch in South Carolina. His Iraq opinions have sometimes been just plain crazy as well - remarking how free and open the marketplace is as he wears his flack jacket and is covered by a freaking battalion and 6 apache helicopters. m
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